Did you ever expect your articles to be so successful in the competition?
Agnieszka Ochód: I did hope they would be, because my interview with Tomek Michniewicz (awarded Silver Pen in Publication for Employees: Event category – Ed.) is one that I personally like. Sometimes when I write something I feel that it’s not enough, that I could change something in the text. But in the case of my interview with Tomek I wouldn’t change a thing. Maybe this is also because I find the subject close to me and important to me.
Anna Waśniowska: I think I didn’t, because we applied for the competition at the end of the year, which is when there’s always much happening in the bank, so we did it at the last minute. Besides, when you look at the jurors they are so diverse that it really would be hard to say what they will be looking for in texts, especially that we address bank employees in our texts.

Have you wondered what was so special about your texts? How were they different from other texts?
A.W.:  For a moment I have, but it’s hard to point to anything specific, because I haven’t read the other articles. Obviously, it must have been something that spoke to the members of such a diversified jury. After all, it’s all about having that special feature that people will remember. That memorable characteristic is what allows the jury to tell this article takes the first place, this one goes second and that one – third. Maybe our articles did push some boundaries and changed the employee magazine a little bit…
A.O.: …which usually is seen as a boring marketing paper, talking only about products and services. Maybe it was because we managed to show that there are people behind all this, people working within that ‘machine’. I mean the article about an employee. When it comes to interviews with people from outside the company, maybe the jury was able to learn something interesting about them.
A.W.: Exactly, maybe the articles in “Baśka” enabled the jury to find out more than from other magazines.
A.O.: Or maybe it’s because in those interviews, in those questions, we were visible as people, and not just robots asking a prepared set of questions? Or the jury members have found themselves in those texts… Actually, we are also curious why they chose our texts. Too bad there was no justification provided, it would be nice for the awarded to know the reason why to shape their future writing.

Where does this talent for writing come from? Those awards are not only the result of interesting people that you talked to, but also your skills. You give the article its overall shape, address questions, direct the interview…
A.O.: I chose humanities courses in high school and I’ve always liked to write. The fact I started to work at a bank – well, I guess it was meant to be. I am just one of many non-analytical minds in our company.
A.W.: Neither can I tell I am a banking expert. Before I came to ING, I was a television and radio journalist. Then I got interested in PR more, and so I came to work at the PR department of the bank. I did my first interview with Leszek Możdżer, whom I knew from the radio. It was my first task in the bank, so the job change was painless and I am still doing what I used to do and what I really like.

Anna Waśniowska: The range of interests among people working in our bank is so wide that for us as journalists it is truly a mine of information. (…) we’re still trying to develop the magazine, to bring it closer to employees. We are looking for a model that is most interesting, but at the same time meets all the criteria of internal magazine, that is providing information about the company.

 

Many people perceive working at a bank as analytical and imitative. You are breaking that stereotype. Clearly you show that working at a bank can be creative and can bring success not only in finance.
A.W.: I believe there’s no rule for this, and also this is changing. The more employees I get to know the more I feel there are many interesting people in our bank, and I think as editors we should be showing them. Aga’s awarded text about one of our employee’s passion is proof that people here have hobbies and are fulfilled individuals. In our bank we have musicians, culture experts, sociologists, philologists of various kinds. It’s not that we only have analysts, IT experts and mathematicians.
A.O.: I have met a girl here who does a typical banking job but in the evening and at weekends she writes crime novels that you can easily buy in bookstores.
A.W.: The range of interests among people working in our bank is so wide that for us as journalists it is truly a mine of information. I actually think that even though “Baśka” is nearly 22 years old, we are just at the beginning of the road because we’re still trying to develop the magazine, to bring it closer to employees. We are looking for a model that is most interesting, but at the same time meets all the criteria of internal magazine, that is providing information about the company.

How do you choose topics and people for interviews?
A.O.: We ask employees if they have interesting hobbies and if they’d like to tell about themselves. Besides that, people know that we are looking for people and subjects to “Baśka”, so we also get suggestions from them. In the case of Tomek Michniewicz and Paweł Motyl, we were inspired by our HR department. They were invited to our bank to deliver inspirational speeches for our employees. We used the opportunity and asked if we could interview them. In such cases collaboration between various departments in the bank is crucial.
A.W.: If we know about such an event, we contact the organizers and ask them to make it possible for us to talk to the speakers. This was the case with Janek Komasa (Golden Pen in Publication for Employees: Event category – Ed.) – I knew we were sponsor for the film “City ’44”) and I asked if I could talk to the director. The interviews with the guests of our HR meetings are not only a way to make the magazine more colorful, but are also useful for employees who are not able to take part in such meetings. These events are not recorded in any other way, so an article in “Baśka” is the only way for employees from various parts of Poland to get to know them.
A.O.: Whenever that’s the case we do brainstorming within the team and ask: “We’re doing an interview with this or that person, what would you like to know about them? What would you ask them about?” It gives us different perspectives. It’s worth initiating such discussions once in a while, because we come up with interesting topics I myself could omit.

Apart from you, there are other bank employees who also contribute to the magazine writing about the business operations of your Bank. Do they ask you for advice?
A.W.: More and more people tend to call us or write to us asking for advice. People feel that it’s good to have someone else look at the text. And we are there to help them.
A.O.: Sometimes when we ask someone to write an article about something, we send them some leading questions, suggest which subjects to touch upon, so that they know what to do. We want to help the author, because they tend to look at the subject from their own point of view, and even though they may be great experts in the field, they would use technical language that not everybody can understand. Sometimes we may suggest the form of the article helping to tell about something in a simple way, e.g. answers to particular questions or the true or false method.
A.W.: Finance and banking are fields that can easily lead you to an inaccessibility trap. Something may sound similar in retail banking and corporate banking, but it will be perceived in two different ways, and the other way round. I once talked to an author who knew that the main goals of our magazine are to inform and to educate. She wrote a good text that was well understood by her department, but was rather incomprehensible for other departments. When I was asking her additional questions trying to get her down to the level of someone from another department, she said: “But when my colleagues read this they might think I don’t know what I’m talking about.” So here’s the clash of different perspectives. We need to find the common denominator, so that the text is still professional and meaningful, but at the same time it’s written in a language that, firstly, does not leave any doubt regarding the meaning and secondly, is interesting and valuable for readers from various fields, which all have their own specific rules.

Agnieszka Ochód: We do brainstorming within the team and ask: “We’re doing an interview with this or that person, what would you like to know about them? What would you ask them about?”. (…) It’s worth initiating such discussions once in a while, because we come up with interesting topics I myself could omit.

 

 

How do you omit the trap of hermetical expert language? What do you do to keep the form simple and comprehensible for all readers?
A.W.: I often call myself the first screening test. I openly say what I don’t understand in a text. It very often provokes the author to an afterthought. I work at a bank, but I deal with something completely different. I do my best to cherish this eye and ear of a journalist in me, because I hope this is what helps me be objective and sensitive to news and interesting things that can be used in the magazine. I believe being specialized in banking would limit me in a way.
A.O.: Just like Ania, I also often tell the author: “But I don’t quite get it, can you explain this to me?” And then the author does not focus on writing it down, but on explaining the message to me. And when they do, it all becomes so clear and seems so simple, we just write it down, because it turns out it’s easier to talk about it than to write about it. Ania and I are like a screening test. We know the organization, we work here, we have a feeling of what it’s about, but we look at it from a different perspective. So when we do the editing and want to change something in a text we can always say that it’s because we have a wider perspective. Then there is a third person who reads the texts, and she has nothing to do with banking, so she works as one more ‘sift’. This is our two-step method of eliminating too complicated words and phrases. We still work in a bank, right, so we are used to certain phrases, and that third eye is the one that can be truly objective.

And that third eye is…?
A.O.: It’s Iwonka (editor from Aude – Ed.), who sometimes tells us to change something completely. I like her for that because if we turn a blind eye to something then she comes in and there’s no mercy. (laughs)

What if the author does not want to make any changes?
A.O.: I try to collaborate with people using the principle that they have the expert knowledge and I know how to write it. If the article is interesting but the author says: “But that’s not how I wrote it,” then I tell them that the text is good and that clearly they have put much work into it, but readers may have difficulty reading it and it would be a pity to waste such a good material. I also tell them about my skills, my knowledge and experience. It’s important that they have confidence in my ability to sell the text better. I tell them: “I trust in your expert knowledge, try to trust my writing skills, and together we can make it even better.”
The contributors who listen to our advice are getting gradually better with each next article they write for “Baśka”. It is a great pleasure to see them develop their writing skills.